Curse

Femmefatal · Jun 04, 2010, 10:27 AM // 10:27

The main thing is you do not HAVE to use EXPLOITS to complete anything in this game. The thousands of us who don't use them have proved this. Therefore anything exploity can and should be looked at by Anet and the criminals banned. It's just like Gaile said if it looks like an exploit then it usually is an exploit and you shouldn't do it anyway. Play the game as intended. By the numbers, by the numerous battles and by the time limits created with the normal and regular way of playing. Stop trying to make excuses or look for loopholes to cheat it's not going to work as Anet has the final say and can do anything at any time with THEIR DISCRETION if they see fit. It's their game buddy boy. You bought a license to play it and nothing more. You have no rights when it comes to how the game was intended to be played.

belshazaarswrath · Jun 04, 2010, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Femmefatal

The main thing is you do not HAVE to use EXPLOITS to complete anything in this game. The thousands of us who don't use them have proved this. Therefore anything exploity can and should be looked at by Anet and the criminals banned. It's just like Gaile said if it looks like an exploit then it usually is an exploit and you shouldn't do it anyway. Play the game as intended. By the numbers, by the numerous battles and by the time limits created with the normal and regular way of playing. Stop trying to make excuses or look for loopholes to cheat it's not going to work as Anet has the final say and can do anything at any time with THEIR DISCRETION if they see fit. It's their game buddy boy. You bought a license to play it and nothing more. You have no rights when it comes to how the game was intended to be played.

You say that as if the population of people who play the game and use exploits of some kind is a small number of people and that simply isn't true. Hell the 1000+ people who botted were just a drop in the bucket as far as banning botters go and exploits are accessible to everyone. Also they may have the rights to the game but if no one's playing their damn game it's worthless so you can take the "oh but it's their game card" and throw it a way. It's as much our game as it is theirs.

And as I just explained a 5 year old game is going to be VERY STALE if people aren't trying to find new ways to do things. And with limited updates a lot of new fun things to do involve exploits. It's the nature of the beast.

Al Dente · Jun 04, 2010, 10:37 AM // 10:37

I agree.

I disagree with Gaile on not making a book/list of things considered cheating (maybe not for PvE) as we need a list of what is considered match fixing and exploiting in PvP.

I feel her pain on it, and see the nuisance of it and all it would create, but we can't continue not knowing for certain what is and isn't allowed.

(Also, her first point on having to update it every other week is pointless, putting an extra line of text in a document isn't that hard, time-consuming or stressful)

But, like Belshazaarswrath said, if the game wasn't so old and fairly boring, people wouldn't exploit and use strange, over powered tactics.

Morphy · Jun 04, 2010, 10:42 AM // 10:42

I think this is mainly a problem in PvE because in PvP it's not hard to determine what is probably allowed and what isn't.

Are speedclears allowed, for example?

Frenzy.CL · Jun 04, 2010, 10:46 AM // 10:46

So what, am I going to banned in 3 months because I took part in "Red Resign" day? According to the above post I can be banned for taking part in RR day, so what I would like to know is am I? Would save me a lot of wasted time as already posted.

belshazaarswrath · Jun 04, 2010, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frenzy.CL

So what, am I going to banned in 3 months because I took part in "Red Resign" day? According to the above post I can be banned for taking part in RR day, so what I would like to know is am I? Would save me a lot of wasted time as already posted.

What's that? It sounds like something they wouldn't retroactively ban people for...but obviously you never know.

distilledwill · Jun 04, 2010, 11:02 AM // 11:02

I have to say, the whole bit about:

Quote:

* We decline to waste time on the "it's not on the list, therefore you can't block me" arguments. Such discussions are utterly pointless, but some people do insist in trying to engage in them anyway.

..is a little scary!

What they seem to be saying there is:

"There doesn't have to be any kind of rule about why we ban you, there doesn't even have to be any reason! We can and will do it."

I actually find it rather threatening. I do think you are right, half the fun of the game is finding the most efficient way to play it - and it seems that some of these ways Anet will consider an exploit. I suppose on the border between efficient play and exploit its very difficult to know where to draw the line.

Did you know, for example, by using superior runes and a focus which gives -50 health you can reduce your health to just 55hp? Then by using Prot Spirit and health regen you can become pretty much invincible! No fake!

I myself rarely farm, I don't tend to do organised PvP and I wouldn't know how to even find a botting program - let alone use it. But I know that I can clear HM areas pretty quickly, I've used builds which allow me to storm through Guardian and maxed a lot of titles. I'm not sure what part of my actions would skim the line of exploit, but I shudder to think of the gw-police-state which the above statement makes me think of.

I wholeheartedly support the banning of the 3700 bots, but I'm not sure about this "exploit" malarky.

Frenzy.CL · Jun 04, 2010, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

What's that? It sounds like something they wouldn't retroactively ban people for...but obviously you never know.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Red_Resign

Don't know how you could have missed it as you could hardly even go into GTOB on those days without people yelling "HAPPY RR DAY EVERYONE" about every 4 seconds. Then again, I never found out about RR until the last one they had before HB got removed. At the time I did not know it was such a big deal.

Nor did I think it was a bannable offense seeing as there were a bloated amount of districts in HB all of people doing RR. So what I wanna know is Anet going to ban all of the people who used RR in the next couple months...

Gill Halendt · Jun 04, 2010, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Relying on players' ability to discern wether they're cheating or not is stupid.

This "play responsibly and don't worry about it, we could ban you any time for anything that might resemble a cheat" answer is simply idiotic. They should take a more moderate and educative approach to exploits, such as instructing players and warning against potential abuses and banning only after repeated and severe offenses. Right now they're yet to ban anyone for, say, speedbooking or ferrying, but they could do it any time by Gaile's statement. With no forewarning. With no possibility to appeal.

So, I have a long story as a gamer, playing videogames since I was 5-6 years old. I'm a "professional gamer" and still I don't know if some stuff in the game is allowed or not. Heck, they can't even define "exploits": something playing "not in the way it was meant to be played" is way too vague.

Example: The Curse of the Nornbear.

I - and probably everyone out there - know Svanir's spawning points by heart, so I usually don't bother getting the Wolven Blessing as I don't need Volfen Bloodlust to locate him anymore. I usually skip the first cave and go straight to his first spawning point, beat Svanir and then play the mission normally. I'm not playing the mission as mandated by the questlog, which in fact isn't updated for the whole duration of the missione, as I'm skipping the first objective. Is that a cheat?

Is preemptive interruption soon after engaging battle a cheat?

Leaving your dead teammates behind in the Great Northern Wall mission and reaching Captain Callahan alone... is that a cheat? Guess not, it's even suggested by the game itself, yet that's the principle behind running, which is not the way the game was "meant to be played" and, by Gaile's definition, a cheat and hence a "bannable offense"...

belshazaarswrath · Jun 04, 2010, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frenzy.CL

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Red_Resign

Don't know how you could have missed it as you could hardly even go into GTOB on those days without people yelling "HAPPY RR DAY EVERYONE" about every 4 seconds. Then again, I never found out about RR until the last one they had before HB got removed. At the time I did not know it was such a big deal.

Nor did I think it was a bannable offense seeing as there were a bloated amount of districts in HB all of people doing RR. So what I wanna know is Anet going to ban all of the people who used RR in the next couple months...

Oh yea I heard of that...I just never heard anyone call it that.

JR · Jun 04, 2010, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Using a runner to accelerate your advancement hasn't been an issue in five years, I see no reason why Speed Booking should be treated any differently.

[EDIT: Disregard that. Turns out the Wiki description of speed booking wasn't quite accurate.]

As for their unwillingness to provide a categorical list of bannable offenses, you're kidding yourself if you think any sane MMO developer would consider doing that. Such a list would both be difficult to maintain and incredibly exploitable.

dancing gnome · Jun 04, 2010, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Using a runner to accelerate your advancement hasn't been an issue in five years, I see no reason why Speed Booking should be treated any differently.

As for their unwillingness to provide a categorical list of bannable offenses, you're kidding yourself if you think any sane MMO developer would consider doing that. Such a list would both be difficult to maintain and incredibly exploitable.

ANet clearly disagrees with you about Speed Booking because the nerfed it.

The difficulty of maintaining it would be as difficult as banning people in the first place would it not?

If you are banning someone for something you should know why you are banning them for it.

The support staff are not sylvari. They are not born with communal knowledge gained by everyone before them. If the support staff have some kind of knowledge to let them know what is bannable and what is not, then there should be nothing stopping them from letting the players know the same things they teach their own staff.

The arguments used against people who were banned for "match fixing" could be applied to almost every exploit on some level. If people start getting banned for exploits in general (which apparently are clear to everyone anyway - this thread disagrees) I'm sure a lot of people would desire an expanded explanation of the EULA and RoC. It doesn't need to be a legal document that considers every situation, but saying match fixing as an umbrella term for "doing something we don't want you to do in PvP" is too broad to interpretation in many ways.

Diab Soule · Jun 04, 2010, 12:11 PM // 12:11

I'd be more concerned about getting banned for Red Resign Day.

Axeman002 · Jun 04, 2010, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Update - Thursday, June 3, 2010..........New spawns have been added to Against the Charr and Curse of the Nornbear that may have been intended to prevent speed booking.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/News

GG guys anything else u want eradicated from GW?!?!?

Kashrlyyk · Jun 04, 2010, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Darkblight

They've always considered pvp srs bsns.

No, they didn't: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...69&postcount=1

Bill Clinton · Jun 04, 2010, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Is there still no official word on Red Resigns from a year ago?
Even though it seems unlikely that they will ban all those people (I mean come on, there were 16+ districts doing it...) I really hate walking on eggshells.

Sticks and Stones · Jun 04, 2010, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Okay, this thread has served it's purpose, since Hero Speedbooking has been eliminated, and therefore it must have counted as an exploit. Could a mod please close this thread?

As a final word on the whole matter, it is clear to me now this was an exploit. And no, it isn't the same as running or getting to level twenty before leaving pre-searing Ascalon, nor is it the same as a pre-emptive interrupt in any way shape or form. All those things require effort or skill to do.

Hero speedbooking was easy and took less than five minutes, any mug could get the builds and then breeze through the titles.

There is also good reasoning why people who did do it are not the same as other exploiters. PvP exploits obviously cause the opposing team to suffer, or allow people to get sellable items. This exploit just made faction farming faster and didn't effect the in-game economy or other players negativity.

Some runners may have been payed for it, but it would be impossible or at least very resource intensive to separate those who did from those who didn't, and Anet is unlikely to risk another blanket ban after all the turmoil this botting one has caused.

At the end of the day, I've noticed that a lot of people are really harsh on Anet. Anet are a company, a company which is in the process of making a game and at the same time supporting Guild Wars. It is unfair to demand so much of them all the time, and though of course it is reasonable to expect support, we can't be so indignant when it takes a while coming around, it's not like we're paying monthly.

It seems to me it's a bit damned if you do damned if you don't for Anet. In this thread, for instance, some people want everybody who used the speedbooking exploit banned, others wanted it left alone and others still wanted it removed but the exploiters left alone. I figure it must be pretty hard for Anet to appease everybody, but I think here they've done the thing that is best for the community in the long run.

Eragon Zarroc · Jun 04, 2010, 02:17 PM // 14:17

well, it is no longer an expoit

Essence Snow · Jun 04, 2010, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticks and Stones

Some runners may have been payed for it, but it would be impossible or at least very resource intensive to separate those who did from those who didn't, and Anet is unlikely to risk another blanket ban after all the turmoil this botting one has caused.

It seems to me it's a bit damned if you do damned if you don't for Anet. In this thread, for instance, some people want everybody who used the speedbooking exploit banned, others wanted it left alone and others still wanted it removed but the exploiters left alone. I figure it must be pretty hard for Anet to appease everybody, but I think here they've done the thing that is best for the community in the long run

Speedbooking is still very much viable...just not the hero variant. The ppl running it will simply become more visable now that the hero options is out.

dancing gnome · Jun 04, 2010, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticks and Stones

Okay, this thread has served it's purpose, since Hero Speedbooking has been eliminated, and therefore it must have counted as an exploit. Could a mod please close this thread?

As a final word on the whole matter, it is clear to me now this was an exploit. And no, it isn't the same as running or getting to level twenty before leaving pre-searing Ascalon, nor is it the same as a pre-emptive interrupt in any way shape or form. All those things require effort or skill to do.

Hero speedbooking was easy and took less than five minutes, any mug could get the builds and then breeze through the titles.

There is also good reasoning why people who did do it are not the same as other exploiters. PvP exploits obviously cause the opposing team to suffer, or allow people to get sellable items. This exploit just made faction farming faster and didn't effect the in-game economy or other players negativity.

Some runners may have been payed for it, but it would be impossible or at least very resource intensive to separate those who did from those who didn't, and Anet is unlikely to risk another blanket ban after all the turmoil this botting one has caused.

At the end of the day, I've noticed that a lot of people are really harsh on Anet. Anet are a company, a company which is in the process of making a game and at the same time supporting Guild Wars. It is unfair to demand so much of them all the time, and though of course it is reasonable to expect support, we can't be so indignant when it takes a while coming around, it's not like we're paying monthly.

It seems to me it's a bit damned if you do damned if you don't for Anet. In this thread, for instance, some people want everybody who used the speedbooking exploit banned, others wanted it left alone and others still wanted it removed but the exploiters left alone. I figure it must be pretty hard for Anet to appease everybody, but I think here they've done the thing that is best for the community in the long run.

This thread became a debate about exploits in general and how ANet chooses to act on them. People were discussing whether bans for things like speed booking would even be fair seeing as many players didn't even think it was cheating.